This is in response to the comments and discussions (on this blog, other networks, and offline) that followed previous article: Provocative Clothes and Rape: Are Men Alone Responsible?
In the said article my point is: when a woman wears provocative clothes knowing (and often with intention) that it is going to attract excessive male attention by appealing to sexuality it is irresponsible on her part because she is knowingly running into the risk of being harassed; and if she gets raped, she is partly responsible for the tragedy. By not wearing "provocative" (try to see the literal meaning of the word) women can at least avoid the avoidable trouble. After all, not exposing body parts excessively in a provocative way is not such a discomfort!
What I find interesting is that most people who responded to the article committed strawman fallacy. Stawman fallacy is when your originally expressed point X is misinterpreted in distorted form Y, and then that distorted interpretation Y (called strawman) is attacked, while leaving your original point untouched. If you go through the comments to the article you will see that the most repeated form of strawman is something like this:
Rape doesn't happen only with women wearing provocative clothes. It's mostly decent and weak women who fall prey to rapists. Since decent women are raped too, that means men are perverts. Women are innocent, because those decent women don't do anything to provoke rapists. Apply stricter controls and don't let rapists get away with their crime.
Well, I am all for punishing rapists. (And this was clearly said in the article itself.) But did you notice how the original point is lost? No one, not a single person who argued on the article (online and offline) seemed to understand that the article is only talking about 1) the relationship between provocative clothes and rape, and not about rape in general; and 2) the ridiculous movement for women's right to freely wear whatever men can. That's what the article is about. Since it can't be denied that there is a relationship between provocative clothes and rape, it must be admitted that it is irresponsible on part of women to wear body-exposing clothes where it is risky. As for why can't women wear what men can, the explanation is pretty clearly given. That's all there is to understand in the article.
I don't deny that decent and weak women are raped, and that the rapists must be made to pay for it. But I am not talking about those instances at all. My argument was about the instances of women wearing provocative clothes, thereby being irresponsible, and the fundamentally flawed reason they give for it, that is: if men can wear anything, why can't women. This reasoning is flawed because men and women are different biologically. (For detailed explanation, read this, and this.) Now if we must blame someone for sexism, blame Nature. But ignore the reality and we will pay the cost in varied forms.
If one says that there is zero correlation between provocative clothes and arousal of sexual urges in men, one needs to reconsider it. Provocative clothes produce two effects. 1) Not only do they make the wearer of those more vulnerable to sexual advances from men (at a biology level that's exactly the intention) but 2) once a man is aroused by looking at a women wearing such clothes, he may become more prone to target someone "easy"' to release his sexual energies on. Now of course, one would say it's totally the man's fault. Well, yes. So punish the man all you want. But I am still referring to the full reality. We rational beings can easily say it's the man's fault, but the reality doesn't care what we think and say. Punishing the man (which is only right) isn't going to solve the problem. Because the root of the problem is not purely society. The root of it is in the biology. While catching the criminal is a remedy at a social level, what about what happens at a biology level? How are laws going to change the natural biological processes?
Following part is an extension of the article:
How are laws going to change the natural biological processes? Therefore in a good society we must expect "decent" behavior from everyone. Many of the indecencies are not illegal, but they are still indecent because they are not conducive to good health of a society. Excessively bold sexual behavior, certain bad habits like drug addiction, using swear words etc may not all be illegal in society but these elements do affect people negatively. That's why we call that behavior indecent. Wearing provocative (thus, indecent) clothes for attracting male attention does have its effects. As I mentioned in the previous article, it is a maneuver coming from the animal nature to attract mating partners. In civilized societies now we have better mechanisms in place for that purpose, which suit our human nature. Behaving excessively like animal in any respect is considered indecent. That's why we expect men also to not approach women like an animal, but instead use decent, socially appropriate routes. When a man is desperate for sex his (animal) nature is to exercise bold sexual behavior, and when a woman is desperate her nature is to pull bold attraction maneuvers. So if we take into account differences in biology of man and woman, a woman wearing provocative clothes is essentially doing the same thing that a cleavage-gazing pervert does. Here some people will jump up saying that I can not generalize that every woman wearing provocative clothes is desperate. Well, then not every man who stares at boobs is pervert, too! Get the point? It's naturally fun, healthy in a way, but indecent nonetheless when done excessively.
As I said above, indecency is any behavior which is not conducive to good health of a society. And indecency of wearing unusually bold, provocative clothes affects normal functioning of society by affecting mental states of men. As much as we like to believe from rational point of view that it is those men's fault for not controlling themselves, we must not ignore the full reality which includes natural processes that cause it all. Expecting everyone to operate rationally is good; punishing those who allow passion to overpower their reason and commit crimes is also right; but assuming that humans are perfectly rational is a grave mistake. That can never be, even!
Therefore, punish rapists; admonish all kinds of indecencies; but at the same time let's not forget that we all must always act responsibly and with decency if we wish to be in a good society. And "we" includes men and women both.
In the said article my point is: when a woman wears provocative clothes knowing (and often with intention) that it is going to attract excessive male attention by appealing to sexuality it is irresponsible on her part because she is knowingly running into the risk of being harassed; and if she gets raped, she is partly responsible for the tragedy. By not wearing "provocative" (try to see the literal meaning of the word) women can at least avoid the avoidable trouble. After all, not exposing body parts excessively in a provocative way is not such a discomfort!
What I find interesting is that most people who responded to the article committed strawman fallacy. Stawman fallacy is when your originally expressed point X is misinterpreted in distorted form Y, and then that distorted interpretation Y (called strawman) is attacked, while leaving your original point untouched. If you go through the comments to the article you will see that the most repeated form of strawman is something like this:
Rape doesn't happen only with women wearing provocative clothes. It's mostly decent and weak women who fall prey to rapists. Since decent women are raped too, that means men are perverts. Women are innocent, because those decent women don't do anything to provoke rapists. Apply stricter controls and don't let rapists get away with their crime.
Well, I am all for punishing rapists. (And this was clearly said in the article itself.) But did you notice how the original point is lost? No one, not a single person who argued on the article (online and offline) seemed to understand that the article is only talking about 1) the relationship between provocative clothes and rape, and not about rape in general; and 2) the ridiculous movement for women's right to freely wear whatever men can. That's what the article is about. Since it can't be denied that there is a relationship between provocative clothes and rape, it must be admitted that it is irresponsible on part of women to wear body-exposing clothes where it is risky. As for why can't women wear what men can, the explanation is pretty clearly given. That's all there is to understand in the article.
I don't deny that decent and weak women are raped, and that the rapists must be made to pay for it. But I am not talking about those instances at all. My argument was about the instances of women wearing provocative clothes, thereby being irresponsible, and the fundamentally flawed reason they give for it, that is: if men can wear anything, why can't women. This reasoning is flawed because men and women are different biologically. (For detailed explanation, read this, and this.) Now if we must blame someone for sexism, blame Nature. But ignore the reality and we will pay the cost in varied forms.
If one says that there is zero correlation between provocative clothes and arousal of sexual urges in men, one needs to reconsider it. Provocative clothes produce two effects. 1) Not only do they make the wearer of those more vulnerable to sexual advances from men (at a biology level that's exactly the intention) but 2) once a man is aroused by looking at a women wearing such clothes, he may become more prone to target someone "easy"' to release his sexual energies on. Now of course, one would say it's totally the man's fault. Well, yes. So punish the man all you want. But I am still referring to the full reality. We rational beings can easily say it's the man's fault, but the reality doesn't care what we think and say. Punishing the man (which is only right) isn't going to solve the problem. Because the root of the problem is not purely society. The root of it is in the biology. While catching the criminal is a remedy at a social level, what about what happens at a biology level? How are laws going to change the natural biological processes?
Following part is an extension of the article:
How are laws going to change the natural biological processes? Therefore in a good society we must expect "decent" behavior from everyone. Many of the indecencies are not illegal, but they are still indecent because they are not conducive to good health of a society. Excessively bold sexual behavior, certain bad habits like drug addiction, using swear words etc may not all be illegal in society but these elements do affect people negatively. That's why we call that behavior indecent. Wearing provocative (thus, indecent) clothes for attracting male attention does have its effects. As I mentioned in the previous article, it is a maneuver coming from the animal nature to attract mating partners. In civilized societies now we have better mechanisms in place for that purpose, which suit our human nature. Behaving excessively like animal in any respect is considered indecent. That's why we expect men also to not approach women like an animal, but instead use decent, socially appropriate routes. When a man is desperate for sex his (animal) nature is to exercise bold sexual behavior, and when a woman is desperate her nature is to pull bold attraction maneuvers. So if we take into account differences in biology of man and woman, a woman wearing provocative clothes is essentially doing the same thing that a cleavage-gazing pervert does. Here some people will jump up saying that I can not generalize that every woman wearing provocative clothes is desperate. Well, then not every man who stares at boobs is pervert, too! Get the point? It's naturally fun, healthy in a way, but indecent nonetheless when done excessively.
As I said above, indecency is any behavior which is not conducive to good health of a society. And indecency of wearing unusually bold, provocative clothes affects normal functioning of society by affecting mental states of men. As much as we like to believe from rational point of view that it is those men's fault for not controlling themselves, we must not ignore the full reality which includes natural processes that cause it all. Expecting everyone to operate rationally is good; punishing those who allow passion to overpower their reason and commit crimes is also right; but assuming that humans are perfectly rational is a grave mistake. That can never be, even!
Therefore, punish rapists; admonish all kinds of indecencies; but at the same time let's not forget that we all must always act responsibly and with decency if we wish to be in a good society. And "we" includes men and women both.
|
|
Yes, wearing provocative clothing in a dangerous environment is irresponsible. I agree. And I think hardly any woman knowingly invites such trouble. Most of the women who do that are just unaware. Because obviously people don’t invite something that they hate.
ReplyDeleteAnd coming to second issue, “women can wear whatever they can” is a Reactionary Response to the misbehaviours. We (I mean everyone) all want a certain degree of freedom. I am not talking about freedom to ‘wear what I can’, but about a choice to live a life we want to. We should all have choices in life,whether we exercise that choice or not is another issue. And when there is irrational bias in almost every aspect of your life, you kind of hate people who impose the bias.
I don’t like smoking. If given a choice I would chose not to smoke. It’s bad for health and I hate getting addicted to anything. But I hate being told “you can’t smoke because girls shouldn’t do that.” And out comes “I will smoke if I want, who are you to tell me”. If you isolate this statement it will seem I am reacting foolishly to a good advice. It’s not so. I suppose it would be better for me to explain patiently to that person that it’s not good to be so discriminating in every other minor issues. But honestly do people understand? Nope. Maybe I can ignore, but when nearly every member of the opposite sex bears that bias and thinks he is right in doing so, it gets on your nerve.
I know that this is different issue than your topic of discussion but the psychology is the very same.
And it’s just not about smoking...
“women are crazy” “women are dumb” “women who expose are sluts” “don’t marry women who are ambitious” “women who propose are again, sluts” “She is not a marriage material because she is unassertive” “Women can’t handle stress, they cry all the time” “Women are bad in mathematics” “women just mug up, they don’t have brains” “good women honour their husband (whatever kind of person he may be)” and blah blah...
Most of the men are great at maintaining that kind of double moral standards (different ‘Dos and Don’ts” for men and women). And women face that every day, starting from childhood. Some differences are understandable. But excess is mean. And there is excess of that in society.
Women saying “I can wear what I can” is not women acting hypocritical. It’s women being fed up of all the irrational bias their male counterparts impose on them so easily without thinking or caring or trying-to-understand about how it may affect the women.