Are you atheist or believer?

Your God does not exist. There is no such God who you can please by your prayers and seek favors from.

I am beginning this article with a little story. Here it goes:

An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem Science has with God, The Almighty.

He asks one of his new students to stand and...

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student: Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? (Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is God good?

Student: Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student: From... God.

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student: Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student: Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son... Have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theater becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.

Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light... But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't.

If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure.

Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir.

With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable. )

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student: That is it sir... The link between man and God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving and alive.

***

If you are thinking that I brought up this story because I want you to learn some truth out of it then chuck the thought. In my view this story is nothing more than just amusing. However witty you might find it, it does not teach any truth. Soon you will find out why then I started the article with it.

You saw two characters in the story. The professor is an atheist, and the student is a believer. Most of the people of the world fall into one of these two types. Either they believe in God, or they are atheist. In my view, both types of people are ignorant of God. (And if I must mention, agnostics are no better, either.)

Going back to the story, if I compare the student’s arguments (which are implied to be winning) vis-à-vis the professor’s initial arguments I find the story ridiculous. Whether the evolution is really in place or whether the professor has brain are the points out of question. Evolution is scientifically proven theory. And as for seeing it, it can only be observed over a very long period of time; and it has been observed, of course. And about human brain, it is not only seen, but also touched by the scientists. It is unquestionable that not only humans but all the animals have brain. So unless the professor is anything but an animal the doubt about his having brain should not arise. As against this, the believers have nothing to measure God with but faith – and that is a fact! The story is utterly flawed in that it is not written on rational grounds but is written with the sole intention to prove superiority of faith over science, albeit, only to those people who are poor at science and logic! That is the reason I said it is nothing more than just amusing. It has nothing to teach a rational mind. The premise on which rationalism is formed is science (in the sense that it is a “systematic” study of things). In rationalism there is no place for a thing as faith.

If something is there then you can see it, hear it, smell it… There has to be some solid way you can sense it. If you can not sense it and still get an “inside feeling” that it is there then you go ahead and probe the thing until you come to sense it eventually. But it is insane to hold the existence of something which you can never sense but only have an “inside feeling” for. You can depend on “inside feeling” for a day, but not for a lifetime.

I said both atheists and believers are ignorant of God. Now atheists are sill good in that they are truthful and frank. They don’t know God and they accept it. Believers are rather dangerous. They don’t know God but still every one will have his own idea of God. Then there will be religions and there will be fights on the name of God. This inclines me to admire atheists more than believers. However, on the whole, yes, both are ignorant of God.

Putting faith on something means forcing it on your mind. God is not something to be forced on your mind. God is to be “known”. There is a difference between knowing and believing. Belief is a forced upon thing, while knowledge is natural. You only believe in something which you have no knowledge of. You “believe” in God, because you don’t “know” God. When you know God there remains no question of believing in it. There is no need for faith.

You know that tomorrow the Sun will rise again. You know that the Moon will show up tonight. You never say such thing as “I believe Sun will rise every morning.” You just say “Sun rises every morning”. This explains the difference between knowing and believing. There is no need for faith there, for you know that Sun and Moon exist. Likewise, when you know that God exists you will stop believing and start realizing God.

Have you ever tried to understand why you need to force God on your mind? If you don’t see or sense Him then why not leave Him? What’s the reason you have to believe in something which does not come natural to your mind? Seems as if you are not following God, but stalking Him! Why such a desperation? The reason for this desperation is also the reason why you are unable to know God.

The reason is here: The first time you seriously contemplated God was when you were unhappy or insecure. And then every time when you are happy and contemplate God it is because you don’t want to lose happiness/security. Do some introspection and you will know it’s true. In any case, humans expect a favor from God when they contemplate God. Favor is the only reason for which humanity needs to believe in God. May it be taken on faith, but God is desperately needed for the want of favor. Other than the want of favor there can be no reason why you would like to believe in God. Has the belief that God is come with your birth? No. Have you ever given it a thought why then you force on your mind the existence of something which no one in the world has ever seen? It’s only because of the fear that not believing in God will land you into some sort of trouble, and believing in it will make life good. You are in fear of your God. This is the reason humans can never really know God.

Belief can lead to knowledge. But the belief which is flawed can never lead to knowledge. Your belief in God is flawed. The whole concept of God which humans have made is utterly flawed. Your God does not exist. There is no such God who you can please by your prayers and seek favors from. That made-for-you kind of God exists only inside your narrow mind.

First of all there is a need to change your portrait of God. In my article “What is God?” I have described briefly what God is according to me and how I believe it to be an ideal way of seeing God.

I say God is the power which created the existence and governs it. I call it Nature. You may call it “some power” or whatever else you may please. God is Nature. This in my view is an absolute definition of God.

Nature is everywhere. Every living and non-living thing in the universe is Nature. The whole of existence, thus, is God.

Now you should be startled. First I said God is the power which created the existence. Then I said the existence itself is God. Is God then “creator” or “creation”?

I will say both. The creator and the creation are different forms of the same energy which is God.

When it rains the believers say God sent the rain. Scientists observe the process of heating of ocean-water and formation of clouds which result into rain. Then they stand opposed to each other. The problem with humankind is that they have always put science against God. I say the Sun is one form of the energy. The heat that is emits is another form of the energy. The water and the vapor it turns into are also the forms of the same energy. Rain is the combined creation of different forms of the same energy. That energy is God.

For that matter, what we call creation is an ongoing process. Creation is never complete. In other words, nothing is ever “created” in this universe. There’s only the energy which keeps changing forms – and the process is scientifically called evolution. After all, the whole universe is evolved to this stage out of a single element, and is still evolving.

Thus, God is the creator and the creation too is God. Everywhere, everything is God. The universe is made of, and filled with nothing but God.

When you understand this you start seeing God all around. Sun, Moon, mountains, oceans, rivers, animals, birds, insects… Everything is God. You are also the creation. So, you are also God.

What is true worship?

The only true worship is respecting the creation, and thereby respecting God. That alone can bring peace in the world. All other forms of worship are useless – and it is evident.

Out of all the creatures in the world only humans seek God, because only humans are not at peace. Where there is no respect for Nature, peace can not be. Intelligent humans have lost the consciousness of being God. You destroy God and you be destroyed. That is what is happening with humankind.

Humankind has entered into a world separate from that created by God. How can there be peace where there is no God? Yes, God is still there all around and within you, too. But humans are so preoccupied with their own phony creation (called Samsara) that they can’t see God anymore. The connection with God is cut off.

The wise men have said, look within you and you shall find God. Knowledge of one’s self is given much importance in many religions too. But who understands religions!

Buddha was not mad that he gave up his kingdom and set out to live natural life. The monks living far away from the “human world” in the Himalayas are not mad. That is the only path of being one with God. Nature is God. And peace is only when you stop destroying Nature and start living with it.

Look at you. You need God because you want to be rich, or want a good wife, or want to become “something” in your life. These are all your worldly pursuits, the Samsaric things. It has nothing to do with God. O stupid, do you realize what will you do with all of it when the world itself will have been destroyed by your destructive living? Are you even aware how humanity has put the whole existence at stake for their absurd living? And you think the God will help you get the promotion in your job? It’s shit!

Even if you can not become one with Nature, start respecting Nature and you start respecting God. If you can not save Nature then just keep the guilt in your heart that Nature is being destroyed by you and your kind. I say keep the guilt, because guilt brings humbleness. And humbleness evidences purification of heart. And the whole process of purification of heart is worship.

When you live harmlessly, respecting everything in the creation out of pure heart there is no better form of worship. Nothing else will bring you peace, because the real God dwelling inside you needs nothing else.

11 Comment(s):

sunil said...

Believing or not believing, in existence of God is something you can’t prove nor show, is a very personal decision. To quote a Paragraph from Raja-Yoga “Man wants truth, wants to experience truth for himself; when he has grasped it, realized it, felt it within his heart of hearts, then alone, declare the Vedas, would all doubts vanish, all darkness be scattered, and all crookedness be made straight. "Ye children of immortality, even those who live in the highest sphere, the way is found; there is a way out of all this darkness, and that is by perceiving Him who is beyond all darkness; there is no other way."

The concepts of God humbles me ,It makes me aware of my limitations and makes me realize how much I don't know. I believe in prayer that helps me to see God as an extension of myself that will provide me the strength to go on when I think it is the end .I can only speak for myself and my believes based on my experiences in life.

Prayer and God will help those who decide to help themselves.So believe in God but lock your car.

Dhanya said...

Faith is what gets most of us going. Did you know that prayers have been so effective that it has made sick people feel better ? It has been proved as part of a research comparing people who did say prayers opposed to those who didn't.

And somehow we all feel better knowing that a superior power is up there trying to help us out in our worst conditions. A kind of security blanket when nothing else works :)

☥ ѕωαмι ηανєєη said...

That story is like the 2nd most used thing in theist-atheist discussion around the web
1st one being the paradox (can god create a rock so heavy that god himself cannot lift... even i use it many times to keep the noobs away)
Just like u said, that story is seriously flawed from both sides.(So is the paradox :P).
Richard dawkins in his book the god delusion puts a very good point where he makes the classification of theism atheism n agnosticism in 7 diff ways with 1 n 7 being extremities of theism n atheism respectively n 4 being total agnosticism. By this the 7s n 1s are one and the same, they both arent ready to open their eyes for further possibilities.I see myself somewhere around 5 leaning towards atheism.
Although i dont really buy the God is both creator n creation thing. But i do hope for one unifying theory which must have a starting point.
Apart from that "faith makes us work hard" n "humbleness makes us better people" is more of a social aspect. To which all i can say is that if existence of something would do some good , then that doesnt make it any more real.
Paying respect to God is one more concept that i am not really that much into.
One fellow here said prayers made sick people feel better ..then so have sugar pills instead of real medicine (i am not being satirical ..its a real research) its called faith in some concept but again that doesnt make it anymore real.
I am open to any finding that might establish god as a proved entity.But i cant stop being any less skeptical about it.
Anyways Nice post, Keep it up !

Mr. Satyakam said...

Thanks for ur visit and comment in my page..I've only one thing to say "We can't get God by argument"
It is the matter of faith..
Who has given us the brain to argue..its God only..Have we seen wind but it exists..
Can science create new human from scratch?Can they give eye sight to a blind person.
Evil is there to balance everything and to have presence of god felt..
If Darkness will not be there we can't feel the goodness and preence of light.
Thanks

Tulika Verma said...

"Seems as if you are not following God, but stalking Him! Why such a desperation?"
I love this strong, forceful way of writing. You make all your points so clear.

I again find myself completely agreeing with everything you say.

"...guilt brings humbleness. And humbleness evidences purification of heart. And the whole process of purification of heart is worship.", and the idea of "God is nature" make perfect sense. There are moments when nature and its varied ways and forms almost bring Him to you, right before your eyes.

The whole concept of fighting on the name of "GOD", of all things, is perhaps the most ridiculous thing humanity does. And its shocking to see even "well-educated" people supporting this division. God is a perception, you KNOW God, and he needs no justification; no superiority needs to be proved.

It was a very thought-provoking read.
Thanks. I shall be back :)

Ketan said...

Hi Darshan!

Commenting on your blog for the first time. But unfortunately, for lack of time my comment would be shorter than required.

The story you've quoted is attributed to APJ Kalam on many blogs, and I don't know what the original source is.

I noticed, the professor suddenly turned demented when the student started questioning! ;)

Well, but the level at which you've dealt with concepts in your post, I believe my pointing out any further how the entire argument is flawed is totally redundant.

I agree with a lot in what you state, so obviously that won't be touched upon.

One of the problems is with how you've defined things, and in particular 'God'.

Consider the following dialogue between persons - '1' and '2':
............

1: Do you believe in existence of dragons?

2: No.

1: Why?

2: 'Cuz I've never seen an organism that is very large, has wings, a long and thick tail and most important, can fly and land on two thin legs and feet with claws and breathe out fire of its mouth.

1: Oh, you're getting dragon totally wrong. Dragon is not like that. Dragon has a long muscular snout, it has huge fan-like ears, has a short, rather thin tail, has very stout legs, walks on land and can never fly. Male dragons also have elongated white colored conical rods sticking out from the sides of its mouth. And no, a dragon cannot breathe fire. :)

2: But what you call dragon is what I call an elephant! And I know for sure elephants exist.

1: So do you believe dragons exist?

2: If you say that's what a dragon is, then yes, I do.

1: Do you respect dragons?

2: Yes, kind of. I mean, they are huge and they can kill me an instant, if they so wish. So yes, I'm humbled by dragons, and it is more a fear, rather than genuine respect.

1: Can you worship dragon?

2: Erm... No!

............

From the above dialogue, I wanted to demonstrate several things.

'God' and the various words used in different languages to convey the idea, is a human conception. Just like every other word like dragon and elephant, it carries a specific meaning. This specificity of its meaning is to be respected because it is a mutually agreed upon convention. Imagine, you ask a shopkeeper for a pen but you get an eraser!

What you've defined as God, I 'totally' believe in its existence. But I call it the 'Universe'!....

Ketan said...

...By definition, Universe is everything that exists and could exist (even unknown to us), including the patterns of its behavior (what we call 'laws' of physics), the matter and the energy (which are anyway interconvertible).

So, if you would want to classify people as 'dragonist' and 'elephantist', would you do it on the basis of an ESTABLISHED conventional meaning of words - 'dragon' and 'elephant' or your personal definitions? So if I have to go by your definition of 'God', I'm a theist, because I believe in the existence of Universe!

The 'creation' and 'creator' duality is again something created by man. We, since birth see one thing 'transforming' into the other. We say potter 'made' a pot. But what we actually forget is he merely transformed clay into a pot. We sow seeds, and we think we created a huge trees out of 'nothing'. But again, we forget it was not from nothing, that a tree got created, but rather carbon and oxygen from air, and hydrogen from the soil that got 'transformed' into the tree.

We are too carried away by the idea of 'creation', that the next question we ask in philosophical discussions is - "who then 'created' the air, soil and clay"?

But my point is, the question itself is flawed! My belief is (and it could be 'wrong')- none of these things 'came into existence'; they 'always' existed (maybe in different forms). It's just that our psyches so used to the idea of interpreting transformations as creations are unable to visualize such a possibility.

So yes, I find the Universe interesting and overwhelming. Forget the huge Sun, I might die simply by slipping on the road and hitting my head on a puny little rock!

Whatever I say beyond this are not arguments, but inherent differences between how you and I prefer to see the Universe.

So, you are a 'creation' (the way you defined it), so am I. And so are Milky Way and the humble amoeba. Can I respect all of them in the same fashion? No! Somehow, I would still respect you and myself more than the other things.

This respect is borne out of my awareness that you are a sentient being just like me. Can I think that about the Milky way and the amoeba? Again, no.

If 'worship' has respect as an important component, then I cannot worship Universe/God! Then, it would so happen, I would believe in the existence of God, but without worshiping it! If you could visualize it, then I've no problems being termed a 'theist'. :) ...

Ketan said...

...This is where the concept of God becomes to difficult to discuss without inciting passions. People believe in God, revere, worship, attack, defend and kill for God simply because they believe God is sentient - God can listen, God can see, and that God can prove only by responding (to prayers)!

God without above attributes loses out value for people.

So while, taking the conventional meaning of the word - 'God', I'm indeed an atheist, but I do believe in a FEELING called 'worship'. Please read this (click) blog post and my response to Wise Donkey, where I have tried to define worship, and you'll realize how our very definitions of worship are mutually different! Not unlike our definitions of God. :)

Also ultimately, all that we 'know' is also a case of 'extreme strong belief'. :) Again, an idea you would find in my discussion with Ambi on the same post on worship.

Am very impressed with your blog's arrangement, and the clarity of thoughts in your posts.

Take care.

Jordan Foltz said...

I have a few problems with your porblems with this story. First off in your response "Evolution is a scientfic proven theory." is oe of the most asinine thing I have ever heard. This does not exsist. A proven theory is then called a law. There is no law of evolution, it is still a theory and one the needs a lot of evidence still(where are the in-betweens). Secondly most beliefs have some backing more than just faith. Most holy books have a bit of history to them. Judeo-Christian beliefs have te best evidence with many parts of the Torah and Bible being corraburated by other ancient sources. I am only going to add one more thing to this modest post. You know that the sun is going to rise every morning? How so? You do not know that you wil not die today, that there is not someoe that is going to jump you today, someone waiting around the corner. In the same way you do not that the sun will rise. Just because it has risen every day for many years does not mean it will today.

Anonymous said...

NONSENSE

Anonymous said...

Writer? Rationalist philosopher? Bookworm?

Man, you'd be better off saying you've never read a book and you improvised this while half asleep.

It seems so hard to find a relevant article on atheism on the web, one that offers a dialectic that doesn't resemble that of a crack-smoking ten-year-old gas station employee working the midnight shift.

Or maybe that is exactly who you are, in which case I apologize for being so harsh.

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